De grammaticis

[Lucius Livius Seneca]

[Gaius Curtius Philo]

I agree with this fully

[Lucia Horatia Adamas]

L. Horatia Adamas L. Livio Senecæ omnibusque S.P.D.

I am in Lexington, Kentucky, for the annual meeting of the Academia Latinitati Fovendæ, a group which normally meets in Europe. Last evening we enjoyed an introductory dinner, with over 100 people of all ages and many nationalities chattering away in Latin of varying fluency. It was amazing to see and hear so many people speaking Latin!

Finally got some net access this afternoon, but don't know if this will go through; I had to use webmail as other outgoing mail is not allowed.

I think a group of Grammatici might be a good idea, but charging a fee sounds much more like the loathsome behavior of the B-school than of academia. Academia spurns that sort of thing, although we all know that we have to have pecunia, and some entities demand something called 'bit coin,' which apparently is a virtual species thereof. However, I cannot possibly support having anyone pay a fee either for entry into such a group or to remain in it. As for checking competency, I think all of us know that there are at least three of us who are very good Latinists, and at least a couple of others who are learning and practicing Latin. I hardly think we need to prove that sort of thing. After all, classics majors of my generation and before were not proctored during examinations after freshman year unless non-majors were in the course, and in like manner, we old hands should not have to prove anything. Perhaps new members might have to do so, but a nice post in decent Latin, or several of them, should settle the matter. Possibly my first post to this list had unintended consequences for the conditrix…


Valete!

[Lucius Livius Seneca]

L. Livius mag. Horatiae Adamanti mag. et omnibus sociis sal.

I'm glad to hear that the Academia's convention is going well! Do us Quirites proud, dear colleague!

The initial members of the consilium would need to be appointed by the College (for lack of a consilium to make recommendations), after which they would collectively decide upon the future requirements for cooption. Horatia Adamas, I think your appointment would be inevitable, as your expertise is beyond question.

As for the fees, the motive for them is in no way mercenary, but simply a way to encourage the grammatici to remain invested in their role. The amounts I've proposed are actually insignificant (the annual fee amounts to $1.25 USD), but an important gesture of maintainance and investment in the consilium and collegium. All professional associations and fraternal organizations of which I know have some sort of dues for members, so I do not see this as terribly counter-cultural.

Vale et valete.

[Gaius Curtius Philo]

I agree with Seneca. If this was a bigger amount Id also be against it, but it is so insignificant that its meaning can truly only be to gauge activity in a way that does not require a vote to remove someone from the Consilium. A mechanism can even be made to wave the payment requirment if the person is sick or something of the sort that impedes them.

[Gaius Florius Lupus]

Salvete!
There is no logic in charging a fee.
Someone is supposed to pay a fee in order to have to do additional work? In any normal society people get paid, when they do work, not the other way around. No matter how insignificant the amount may be, the denarii would move in the wrong direction.
One would need to be insane to apply for grammaticus.
Valete!

[Gaius Curtius Philo]

[Lucius Livius Seneca]

L. Livius mag. C. Florio sal.

You mistake the nature of the grammatici, C. Flori. It is not a chore to be named grammaticus, but (as C. Aurelianus has indicated) a privilege. It entitles one to a form of recognition of value to anyone seeking compensation as a Latinist within our Republic, viz., the stable, corporate testimony of their peers as to their expertise.

This is a common, and ancient practice with nearly every organized profession. Lawyers must be admitted to the bar of their jurisdiction and maintain their status with the local bar association (through conduct, and dues). Engineers, accountants, physicians, etc., etc., all operate similarly.

Being a grammaticus isn't a job, it's being certified for a job by one's peers.

Vale.

[Gaius Florius Lupus]

How exactly does this recognition benefit the title holder?
One would get nothing in return. On the other hand the magistri would be encouraged to accept as many grammatici as possible regardless of their actual skills, because every grammaticus means more money for the Collegium.

Let us take this example: There is currently a compensation of Ӿ 50 paid by the Republic for translating the Declaration. So the Collegium has its grammatici translate the Declaration, pockets Ӿ50 and additionally charges Ӿ5 from each grammaticus for the questionable honor to do this work.
But a citizen could just as well translate the Declaration himself, take the money and save the fees of the Collegium.

Livi Seneca, you just came up with a great idea of a business model. I will setup a company and instead of paying salaries the employees pay me for the honor. It does not even matter, if it is much, I just need lots of employees. I do not need to produce anything, since the employees already generate my profit.
Currently I have a job opening. Would you mind to apply? I only charge Ӿ20 for the application.
This is really the best idea since the invention of sliced bread.

Back to our Collegium, it would be far more reasonable that the grammatici receive money for their work. If the Collegium translates the Declaration into Latin in a common effort, it would be fair, if the money paid by the treasury goes into the pocket of the Collegium and it pays the salary of the grammatici from that money. So everybody would get a fair share.

You cannot compare it to a professional association, because the members there receive a benefit. Sometimes it is a pension, sometimes a health insurance, a liability insurance, legal protection etc. Our Collegium would give nothing of that in return. The honor of being a grammaticus is useless in comparison. And it is not reflected anywhere apart from the moment when one has to pay the fee.
Do you think Horatia needs the permission of the Collegium, for people asking her on advice about a grammatical question? Would her expertise be less valuable, because she did not pay the annual fee for a grammatica? She is an expert due to her knowledge and skills, not due to any title.

I support Horatia Adamas in this topic. Let us keep money out of it! There is no need for paying fees or salaries. What we do for the Collegium, we do voluntarily.
The original idea was to have these grades (grammaticus, discipulus etc.), so that they would give people an idea, which role this Collegium member plays. Is he here to learn something? Is he here to help others? You want to turn it into a business model. And it would not even work as such.

If we charge fees for grammatici, we will not find any member for this council, except Seneca himself perhaps who would join just to prove his point.

Valete!

[Lucia Horatia Adamas]

L. Horatia Adamas L. Livio Senecae omnibusque S.P.D.

Still in Lexington…the first day of lectures was held in a building with terrible acoustics; thought I was going deaf, but then I heard that others could not hear the speakers, either. Maybe that's why they spontaneously broke into song, singing "Gaudeamus, igitur" quite forcefully…not that all of us there are juvenes; there are several silver-haired participants as well as several juvenes and everything in between. Some also have installed their toddlers in the lecture hall, and tried to pacify them with electronic stuff no kid that age should ever see. Every now and again, however, howls break forth...

Today the young gentleman who has taken over the late David Morgan's efforts at compiling a dictionary of modern Latin was among the speakers, and there were several other interesting ones--more audible in a different building. We shall finish late tomorrow night. Then comes the fun of packing the car and driving for 12 hours at over 80 mph to keep from being run over. Ugh! Hope I survive…

As for the fees, once again, please, let's keep money out of this.

Valete! We have to be up early, so I must hit the sack!