Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

The social and political heart of the respublica community

Moderators: Publius Iunius Brutus, Lucius Aurelius Curio, Titus Flavius Severus, Lucius Livius Seneca, Marcus Flavius Celsus, Tiberia Salvia Alba

Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Appius Claudius Tuscus » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:49 am

Salve, Brute -

Thanks for the reply, the graphic explanation of your ideas, and the visual aid!

Nice to have you back, and

Vale.
User avatar
Appius Claudius Tuscus
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:57 am

Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Gaius Cominius Laenas » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:20 pm

Really glad to see the Roman Republic springing back to life! Hope to see more of this!
User avatar
Gaius Cominius Laenas
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:24 am
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Titus Flavius Severus » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:16 pm

I sometimes marvel at what I read on this forum, especially here in this thread. Some I know for years, and from this I am even more surprised at the naive nonsense they write in this topic. It would seem that for several years spent and given to the Roman Republic, it’s time to get rid of naive illusions, high pathos, and other romantic tinsel, and taking an example from ancient Romans, arm themselves with healthy pragmatism and take up work, especially during the current crisis. But no! I look here many still go in pink glasses, not understanding the essence of the problem and the tragedy of the situation, trying to make all the old mistakes and inciting the rest to this.

We are offered all the same ones that have shown their unsuitability for the concept: denarii, collegiums, a greater emphasis on religion, a rejection of the political model, the attraction of new citizens. This is a kind of “concentrate” of what people propose to do in this topic. And for this (the achievement of these tasks) we are actively offered a "universal" way out - reforms, the essence of which boils down to a change in the administrative system. What surprises me is how much some of our citizens can be short-sighted, what a short memory they can have, and how hasty and without hesitation they can support anything without even thinking about the consequences.

Collegiums, denarii, new citizens, emphasis on religion, new citizens, a departure from the political component ... it all happened for three years, all these concepts have already been, and the worst thing is that in three years the approaches to these issues have not even changed . I even wanted to make a selection with screenshots of quotations of various people known to you, where they talked about these things year after year, and that these words, like now, were always the same in essence. But then I realized that it would make no sense to waste efforts on hard-nosed people who are sure that they are right. Then I thought that you just need to wait a year, when all these people screw it up once more, but then I realized that there are people among us who cannot realize the inconsistency of their ideas even when practice has shown it. And then time after time these ideas are trying to implement. Then I realized that there was no point in changing something, proving something to someone. In the end, I have never made a mistake in my predictions.

Denarii has not justified itself, this concept is flawed, we have seen and know what denarius has turned into. Now we are offered the same concept and nothing new. But remember, two years ago I kept saying about monetization - this is the only thing that will save denarii, because people will have interest in this currency, otherwise it is simply not needed by anyone, all social activity in denarii is easier to buy than to actually do something , getting for the work of "candy wrappers" and "glass beads". But again offer denarii without monetization. Same mistakes.

Brut offers us the market. Another unviable project. He could still work if commodity operations were made through converted denarii ... oh, sorry, we don’t consider monetization of denarius (= So, the basis for the market has already been formed, the senate made decisions on this issue, Brutus “lobbied” these decisions , it was a year ago, and a year ago I heard all these arguments ... a year passed ... what changed? Nothing, because instead of discussing what we will sell and how, we should think how to attract people to our marketplace to buy and sell from us ... it seemed like - such a simple idea, I have talked about it many times, but only common phrases and no specifics still sound here, it is funny when it comes to money, because romance is alien to them, pragmatics work here, and pragmatic ideas except my own I don’t see. I offered to use collateral transactions, convenient and safe trading mechanisms, that really attract people, even encourage them to buy denarii ... but everyone was not interested, everyone listened to the authoritative opinion of people who mostly left us ... and now the same ... wake up oh open your eyes, you are again making the same mistake!

Ah, here is my favorite "fairy tale" - an emphasis on religion ... I have always been moved by such demands. Why focus on it at all? Here we have everything better than anyone else, we have complete freedom in religious terms, practice, practice ... I did not see that in the past year someone would be prevented from practicing religion, while I did not see people who would illuminate their progress. Religion, that distorted form of the Roman Religion, which everyone practices here, forgetting that the basis of the Cult is a public religion, you can do it yourself, this does not need any project. So why talk about some emphasis on religion for the Republic as a whole, if everyone in this area is free to do what he wants? I will note only the attempt of Lupus to create a unified organization of followers of the Roman Religion, but then I will note that I initially said that this was not a viable project, and so it happened, the attempt was futile, I once again confirmed my prediction. However, even here, the magistrates, including me, helped this religious project in every way, although it was senseless ... The Republic has always helped the projects with what it would have been useful to these projects. So we focused on religion earlier, we have written it in the declaration ... Why do I not understand how someone can again be carried out on slogans or put forward himself, regarding concentration on religion? You want to concentrate on religion, concentrate, why constantly talk about it, take and do less words more deeds, all the possibilities you already have.

I sometimes marvel at what I read on this forum, especially here in this thread. Some I know for years, and from this I am even more surprised at the naive nonsense they write in this topic. It would seem that for several years spent and given to the Roman Republic, it’s time to get rid of naive illusions, high pathos, and other romantic tinsel, and taking an example from ancient Romans, arm themselves with healthy pragmatism and take up work, especially during the current crisis. But no! I look here many still go in pink glasses, not understanding the essence of the problem and the tragedy of the situation, trying to make all the old mistakes and inciting the rest to this.

We are offered all the same ones that have shown their unsuitability for the concept: denarii, collegiums, a greater emphasis on religion, a rejection of the political model, the attraction of new citizens. This is a kind of “concentrate” of what people propose to do in this topic. And for this (the achievement of these tasks) we are actively offered a "universal" way out - reforms, the essence of which boils down to a change in the administrative system. What surprises me is how much some of our citizens can be short-sighted, what a short memory they can have, and how hasty and without hesitation they can support anything without even thinking about the consequences.

Collegiums, denarii, new citizens, emphasis on religion, new citizens, a departure from the political component ... it all happened for three years, all these concepts have already been, and the worst thing is that in three years the approaches to these issues have not even changed . I even wanted to make a selection with screenshots of quotations of various people known to you, where they talked about these things year after year, and that these words, like now, were always the same in essence. But then I realized that it would make no sense to waste efforts on hard-nosed people who are sure that they are right. Then I thought that you just need to wait a year, when all these people screw it up once more, but then I realized that there are people among us who cannot realize the inconsistency of their ideas even when practice has shown it. And then time after time these ideas are trying to implement. Then I realized that there was no point in changing something, proving something to someone. In the end, I have never made a mistake in my predictions.

Denarii has not justified itself, this concept is flawed, we have seen and know what denarius has turned into. Now we are offered the same concept and nothing new. But remember, two years ago I kept saying about monetization - this is the only thing that will save denarii, because people will have interest in this currency, otherwise it is simply not needed by anyone, all social activity in denarii is easier to buy than to actually do something , getting for the work of "candy wrappers" and "glass beads". But again offer denarii without monetization. Same mistakes.

Brut offers us the market. Another unviable project. He could still work if commodity operations were made through converted denarii ... oh, sorry, we don’t consider monetization of denarius (= So, the basis for the market has already been formed, the senate made decisions on this issue, Brutus “lobbied” these decisions , it was a year ago, and a year ago I heard all these arguments ... a year passed ... what changed? Nothing, because instead of discussing what we will sell and how, we should think how to attract people to our marketplace to buy and sell from us ... it seemed like - such a simple idea, I have talked about it many times, but only common phrases and no specifics still sound here, it is funny when it comes to money, because romance is alien to them, pragmatics work here, and pragmatic ideas except my own I don’t see. I offered to use collateral transactions, convenient and safe trading mechanisms, that really attract people, even encourage them to buy denarii ... but everyone was not interested, everyone listened to the authoritative opinion of people who mostly left us ... and now the same ... wake up oh open your eyes, you are again making the same mistake!

Ah, here is my favorite "fairy tale" - an emphasis on religion ... I have always been moved by such demands. Why focus on it at all? Here we have everything better than anyone else, we have complete freedom in religious terms, practice, practice ... I did not see that in the past year someone would be prevented from practicing religion, while I did not see people who would illuminate their progress. Religion, that distorted form of the Roman Religion, which everyone practices here, forgetting that the basis of the Cult is a public religion, you can do it yourself, this does not need any project. So why talk about some emphasis on religion for the Republic as a whole, if everyone in this area is free to do what he wants? I will note only the attempt of Lupus to create a unified organization of followers of the Roman Religion, but then I will note that I initially said that this was not a viable project, and so it happened, the attempt was futile, I once again confirmed my prediction. However, even here, the magistrates, including me, helped this religious project in every way, although it was senseless ... The Republic has always helped the projects with what it would have been useful to these projects. So we focused on religion earlier, we have written it in the declaration ... Why do I not understand how someone can again be carried out on slogans or put forward himself, regarding concentration on religion? You want to concentrate on religion, concentrate, why constantly talk about it, take and do less words more deeds, all the possibilities you already have.

What is left there? Oh yeah, the collegia ... well, this is generally an anecdotal situation! Here all the ominous irony is revealed! As always, we are explained here by the idea of ​​how everything should work and function, we are asked to come up with a name, etc. This is simply ridiculous, because, as with the market, everyone is discussing, except for the most important thing - how to attract people there?

This is the theater of the absurd. Why it is impossible to understand in any way that first of all it is necessary to ensure the collegium - the community, the influx of people who will stimulate its internal activity, and for this people need to be interested in something. But instead of thinking how to really interest people by creating a unique concept, we again discuss what failed two years ago. This is ridiculous. I think this is because these issues are dealt with by people who in reality could not create communities around themselves, now these people explain to us how the community should be done and according to what rules. But this is not the way to success, such people should start with themselves. Instead of developing something that will attract people, they again discuss how many leaders the community should have, and already make up the rules. This is stupid! I spoke about this two years ago, wrote a lot, but no one listened to me, those same people did not listen ... but I was right, and all these previously voiced ideas (which are now flashing again) just showed their inconsistency!

Now let's pay attention to attracting people. This of course closely echoes the question of the collegiums, but I will say in general. When you are told here about attracting people, you should always remember that the most important thing is interest. Our Republic should not only exist, it should provide something unique, which, in aggregate, no project can offer. Only then can we not only attract, but these people will remain with us and will be active. But what are we seeing now? We see a false understanding of what the Republic is now. The problem is not that the control system is not correct, the problem is that the Republic has ceased to be interesting, it essentially does not offer anything. If you look at what Brutus offers, you will see that these are general phrases that relate to internal issues of the device, and they do not resolve a single question about how to interest people. The only thing we have is a unique, religious training system ... but something like this is in Nova Roma ... we are not interested, we demand more than we actually offer and give ... my province paid taxes, for three years I didn’t see any return from this project, it didn’t help us to realize our projects in any way ... it’s hard to admit, but this project is a kind of waste of time and money, which doesn’t give anything substantial that an individual could not do. It is necessary to provide something that will force people not to unite, look for like-minded people, and work through a feybuk or other platform that does not pose any conditions, such as the number of community leaders (= Sarmatia is essentially the only province in the Republic, we have worked for the Republic for years we increased the number of citizens, paid taxes, and for the whole province, that is, for strangers as well, we even found land under a Roman settlement ... but all this is not interesting to anyone here, it was all in vain. We find more people useful sv ideals in the real world, and against this background the Republic sometimes seems to be a place where people gathered who in real life on the Roman theme cannot do anything significant, cannot find and unite people, and the Internet is their outlet. You understand all these plans , reforms, all this does not take into account whether people really care about it, whether it will make the project attractive ... the influx of people and their long-term relationship with the project is not something that goes without saying, you need to work on it, believe me I know what I'm talking about, I have been leading a large community for years yours, and I literally see these problems in the Roman Republic ... but no one wants to correct them, all that is proposed is the old approaches to the old unsolved problems ...

The republic seriously cannot interest even singles, while it should attract already established groups and communities, but this is out of the question, for three years only Sarmatia joined a large group, all the other scattered singles, who even work together able to organize ... all this is even a big role-playing game than work in a magistracy ... Do you want to make a reconstruction board? ... we tried, the fact is that apart from Sarmatians there is no community of reenactors, as a result we ourselves work, and to we don’t need Lehi, we don’t see the meaning in it ... but how the colleges of reenactors without Sarmatians work here - you all saw it well ... Now even Sarmatia has lost interest in the Republic ... they start asking me what was the point to the Republic, and I see no obvious answer after three years. We even found land for construction, implemented the position of the declaration ... but no one even thought about working with us together ... So what I want to say is that all these reforms and approaches that I’m talking about here are just rubbish. You do not need to change the administrative system (which somehow attracts people), you need to change your approaches to attracting people and the concept of the project in general, because the declaration is implemented in practice, does not stand up to criticism, but plans even worse ... the Sarmatians needed three years to understand this ... how much an ordinary citizen will need, I don’t know what to understand, but I hope my text will help.
Quae medicamenta non sanat, ferrum sanat; quae ferrum non sanat, ignis sanat. Quae vero ignis non sanat, insanabilia reputari oportet...
User avatar
Titus Flavius Severus
Consul
Consul
Senator
Senator
Sarmatia Magna
Sarmatia Magna
Cultus Mithrae
Cultus Mithrae
Lictor Curiatus
Lictor Curiatus
 
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:24 am
Location: SARMATIA MAGNA

Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:44 pm

Brutus sal.

Long I have viewed you as a colleague Severus. But this post is really very disappointing. I dare say it’s condescending and defeatist. I remind myself that we share the same goals.

The RR hasn’t failed persay. It just hasn’t met its huge and lofty goals within 3 years. I mean even without much success last year it easily was economically self sufficient and increased its membership. Not exactly a failure. It holds huge potential to blossom. Probably more so than any other Roman organization to be frank.

This matter is really one of how do we realize all our goals of the Declaration. This is no modest goal. But an important one.

You are right local communities are a key component. But this is the 21st century. And many if not all local projects start online. Also no other tool can unite people with shared interests towards common causes like the internet. The RR is the only Roman org that seems to understand this. Every local effort starts with online engagement for the most part.

So how do we translate online to offline and offline to online? We must add value. We must solve problems that exist.

What are these problems? We need to offer a place where real networking can occur. We need to offer a place where anyone can sell and trade goods related to our shared goals. We need a place where people can learn. We need a place where local organizations can organize towards United goals.

The reforms that will be made will start solving these problems.

The funny thing is, a lot about how we will do this has been discussed. Many people have been talking about this daily for a month. You had access to all these conversations. You offer no critique on the nature of the reforms or the plans until now. You offer no alternative idea until hours before the vote. How frustrating this is as one toiling to get things going.

Severus, do you have an alternative plan that you are able to put into action within the next few months? Do you have any solutions? Or are we all doom and gloom?

Amice, bookmark this post. Come back in July and let’s see how things look. The present is actually the most exciting time to be involved in this organization as we are about to solve the gordian knot of Roman Restorationism community building at an international scale.
User avatar
Publius Iunius Brutus
Consul
Consul
Senator
Senator
Martis et Minervae Sacerdos
Martis et Minervae Sacerdos
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Augur
Augur
 
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:54 am
Location: Pacifica Provincia

Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Titus Flavius Severus » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:20 pm

Brutus, you said that we need an open discussion to keep moving forward. I say honestly, like it or not. I do not think that I can be suspected of defeatist or decadent moods. No, this is not so, the fact that I somehow supported the ship of our Republic afloat during the crisis year proves that I am fighting for the future of this Republic, even in such dead ends when almost everyone turned away from the Republic. And I have no prejudices about you, Brutus, I still treat you as a friend, although I, like a number of other citizens, do not agree with your recent decisions. At the same time, I clearly realize that the Republic is your offspring, but over the past time, many of us have made efforts to this common cause, therefore we also have the right to express our opinion and hope that we will somehow take it into account. The fact is that in this attempt for the Roman Republic will be the last, people will not give you another chance, it is difficult not to understand it in a crisis. I hope that those present here are aware of this. So when I write all this, I do it not out of any petty motives, no. I do this to warn you against an error, because I am afraid that the common cause, to which I and my comrades made efforts, spent strength and means, will cease to exist due to something short-sighted and not understanding the essence of the problem. I mean it, at least by the example of how you "dealt" with the boards. We with you, Brutus, have the same goals, but all that you propose, all this was already here, in many respects by you, already proposed. You are talking about beautiful prospects, but in your words there is no specifics, we have already seen this in 2016. These are common words with no concrete action. That project of the market - there is already a regulatory framework for the market, there is a decision of the Senate, so what? The paradox is that everything you said has already happened before. And the tools with the help of which you declare the achievement of this have no specifics and were also in the past.

I do not agree with the fact that online activity is important, our community is huge, Sarmatia is also a project on the Middle Ages, and purely from our experience, I see that the Internet did not help us, we are looking for supporters live. Let's take the province of Lentula in Nova Roma, are you sure that it was built via the Internet. The balance between online and real life is good, but you have nothing to interest living communities ... what your plan will interest reenactors, if you have already destroyed our college ... you cannot interest us, do you think some single person will cope with this ... cope with this better than our community? ... Yes, our community in the Middle Ages for the six months of work has achieved more than you can do in a few years. You say that you will attract people, but I do not see any clear program ... I see common phrases, while your only real community, Sarmatia, begins to distance itself from you. There are already many more of us, but our people do not see the point in obtaining citizenship, this is not interesting to anyone. You are looking into the future, talking about great things, but you don’t see or don’t want to see the problems that are under your nose, you don’t see the seemingly obvious shortcomings in your grandiose plans.

As I said, there is only one attempt, but I do not see anything new in your approach, in fact it is a comet rebranding without changing the essence. We are afraid of this very fact that you use the last chance in vain, because you use methods and attract all the same people. And I do not just criticize something, read carefully, I and we offered something new, remember the monetization of denarius, this is the real way to make denarius attractive, and trading on the market through denarius will force it to buy. This is a new impetus for the market, if you arrange through the denarius a system of providing and insuring purchases. This is a new and promising approach. What you propose is this old and non-viable denarius system; in fact, you simply change the sign without introducing anything new in practice. College? We proposed to create an analogue of military service, created a regulatory framework, this would attract those involved in historical reconstruction, but we simply could not develop further, because those whom we could not even add to the forum because you were not gave anyone the appropriate rights ... and you know what? Nova Roma now uses this idea and quite successfully ... that is, our ideas because of their success, now they are being used by others, and you have trampled them recently, without even letting them continue when we are confronted with the problem of technical rights. Are you talking about adding non-citizens to the forum? I offered it more than a year ago, to make a new category of participants ... look at the forum, all this is there, then remember how Victor was against it, what you yourself said about it ... It hurts me to look at how it all moves along a vicious circle, the same ideas, the same people ... you do not even see that there are other options ... I sincerely will be glad if you will lobby for success, but I will judge not in July, but in a year ... and I'm afraid to think about the price of your possible mistake, because it will be a collapse not only of your dreams, but also of our hope! And now the responsibility will be entirely on you, those whose names you nominated for the position of tribunes with consular authority.
Quae medicamenta non sanat, ferrum sanat; quae ferrum non sanat, ignis sanat. Quae vero ignis non sanat, insanabilia reputari oportet...
User avatar
Titus Flavius Severus
Consul
Consul
Senator
Senator
Sarmatia Magna
Sarmatia Magna
Cultus Mithrae
Cultus Mithrae
Lictor Curiatus
Lictor Curiatus
 
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:24 am
Location: SARMATIA MAGNA

Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:10 am

Brutus sal.

You speak of problems that seem to stem from the decisions of individuals, be it myself or others. You are not wrong in indentifying the role of individuals and their absences in creating some difficulties. But the system that exist was not operating well.

Here is one example of why. No one person should be essential to the RR. Even after control of technical matters was transferred to all the other leading magistrates this did not result in solutions occurring.

I view the fact that individuals and their ability to participate in the RR can have such deleterious impact actually a technical issue. And I do have a plan to fix this. It’s a technical solution for a technical problem. The RR due to its geographic reach is dependent on our technology working and being realsponsive. When the online things work well it empowers the offline coordination and our ability to inspire others to offline action. This is a fundamental principle of the RR.

So what is the technical solution?

It’s about building a platform that can never be dependent on a person. It’s about creating a system that is more automated for workload burden is reduced. It’s about creating a platform that enhances socialization beyond a forum. Good for NR for creating a forum. Welcome to the year 2000. We are about to go way beyond a forum... Its about creating denarii payments that are instantaneous for participation. About building a store that converts denarii into coupons automatically. All of this requires better technology. It’s about creating QR codes automatically for live events that can be scanned and automatically deposit denarii into the accounts of participants. I only scratch the surface of what is proposed. And it’s not months away. It’s weeks away. See the attached images for a sense.

Now I don’t think technology solves every issue. But it can solve most and lead to better leadership or make more consistent leadership much more easier to provide.

The RR exists in a unique position. It is a cultural entity. It is part religious entity. It is part international org. It is part non-profit business. It is part spiritual nation. It is part academic. It’s part social. It wears many hats. Only by using technology and improving our ability to deliver and not making it so dependent on single individuals can we make this organization one that our lives us. And we certainly can make this organization out live us. So let’s get to it.

Vale
Attachments
AC1D03EC-3C10-492F-B2A5-857BF3772DAD.jpeg
AC1D03EC-3C10-492F-B2A5-857BF3772DAD.jpeg (597.55 KiB) Viewed 230 times
87368AF0-CC34-43EB-B56E-75AB73A779FA.jpeg
87368AF0-CC34-43EB-B56E-75AB73A779FA.jpeg (596.48 KiB) Viewed 230 times
9E4A001C-26B6-4E4A-A91D-4AA24DBD8A8E.jpeg
9E4A001C-26B6-4E4A-A91D-4AA24DBD8A8E.jpeg (237.64 KiB) Viewed 230 times
CE6605C3-1E2D-4953-B0BF-D3B4AA6FA871.jpeg
CE6605C3-1E2D-4953-B0BF-D3B4AA6FA871.jpeg (326.69 KiB) Viewed 230 times
User avatar
Publius Iunius Brutus
Consul
Consul
Senator
Senator
Martis et Minervae Sacerdos
Martis et Minervae Sacerdos
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Augur
Augur
 
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:54 am
Location: Pacifica Provincia

Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Quintus Iulius Symphorianus » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:53 am

Severus complaining? I'm shocked.

Consul, I'm glad to see steps being made toward the revitalisation of the Republic.
Moribus antiquis stat res romana virisque. -- Ennius
Romanitas and pietas is not an RPG. -- L. Metilius Niger

Need a website for your province/collegium/societas? Do allow me to help!
User avatar
Quintus Iulius Symphorianus
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:50 am
Location: Prov. Virginia

Previous

Return to Main Forum