Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

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Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:23 pm

Salvete Cives

P Iunius Brutus has posted the following announcement on Facebook:

A motion has been made to dissolve the Roman Republic or reform it to better serve the Declaration (http://www.romanrepublic.org/wip/declaration.html).

Organizations often come to such crossroads.

Personally, I think there is much potential for reform. I favour this. What do you think? How should the Roman Republic move forward? Voice your views here on the forum - viewforum.php?f=3

Roman Republic members / citizens may see the motion made here - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2402


and previously:

The board (comitia curiata) of the Roman Republic non-profit group is now meeting. If you are a Roman Republic member/citizen free to review the discussion as it occurs over the next several days and add your comments to the main forum - viewforum.php?f=3.

Here is where the online discussion is occurring for the meeting - viewforum.php?f=11


Please voice your support and opinions here.

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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:32 pm

Sal.

Thank you for bringing this to attention.

I think the opinion of the stakeholders, the citizens, are absolutely essential in this matter. If we do decide to move forward with preservation, then the role of the community will play an even greater factor. The Roman Republic cannot achieve its lofty goals without frank discussion and subsequent improvement. Huge potential exists, but we need to course correct to reach our destination in my opinion.
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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Quintus Furius Camillus » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:52 pm

SALVETE!

The Roman people existed with a king and his comitia curiata which served as advisors for centuries. It was not born with magistrates popping out of every corner. Why do we have 600 citizens and over 20 magistrates? Come on fellas!

Most of the activity here has always been about who does what or has what permission to act. Rubbish! This is what you do. Create some sort of governing council of five reasonable folks, and let everyone else focus on actual important things. Like promotion, building up real-life activities, regional development, annual RR wide conferences, the good stuff.

If we don't agree to such reforms, go grab my sword for the Roman Republic can fall on it. A tragedy that would make Aeschylus himself cry given what has been built.

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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Gaius Octavius Flavus » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:12 pm

Salve,

I'm for reforming the republic i think although i don’t have much with it
as stated in other forum topic, with all though respect for me politics are something for real life
and not something for on internet.
I’m here for the RR i pointed out some of my ideas on the forum so dont know if i can add something to it.
I hope that more people will answer here so that we have the chance to reform and don’t have to abandon it.

So, if there is any help needed i'm ready to help in any way i can.

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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:43 am

Salvete Quirites!

I think Cammillus is basically right. It was the excessive bureaucracy that strangled the life out of our Republic. We should think about what actual real life needs we have and adjust the offices to them, not vice versa.
This message board is the most valuable asset of the Republic. So we need an administrator with some technical skills and a few moderators. This is all.
The corporation should be dissolved.
Instead of magistrate positions, we should focus on getting the Religio going. We need augures and priests. And we should try to organize this together with other communities to gain recognition beyond our Republic

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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:27 pm

Salvete Cives

If the only change were to fix the site's technical problems, then it would
let everyone else focus on actual important things. Like promotion, building up real-life activities, regional development, annual RR wide conferences, the good stuff.
They could just ignore the politics, just post messages and reply to threads. The fuss was about not everyone being able to vote (a site technical problem) so that they could be participants in the political life of the Republic.

This type of site does offer some advantages over Facebook, and visa verse, so we could keep both.

Folks may join Nova Roma also as many have done. But a merger of the two not for profit organizations would be a legal problem - their own legal problems are not yet solved. Importing the Republic's total membership into free Nova Roma would be up to them.

However it first comes down to the question of the reason for our Republic's existence: the Roman Republic Declaration (http://www.romanrepublic.org/wip/declaration.html). After that, then, would be how to best fulfill the goals of the Declaration, the Constitution.

What changes should be made to the Declaration?

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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:48 pm

The issues around voting is simple to fix. I know how to fix this issue.

The site technical issues could be fixed or worked around immediately. We could effectively hold elections today without issue. Pretty sure of it.

I also think the Declaration is sound.

I think reforms need to look at how we best implement the declaration. My two denarii.
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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Aulus Iulius Caesar » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:01 am

Salvete, I am in favor of reforming, not necessarily dissolving the Republic. If we are to continue I believe the Religio should be the focus as the politics in the Republic need a major revamp. You can't have a political system with two or three active magistrate. It's not not effective. Getting the Religio going will hopefully bring more public support and active members. Then we should discuss going back to politics. Right now we're just simply over stretched on our minimal manpower. Lupus and myself are already in contact with Nova Roma anyways. Lets show them and the other revival groups we mean business and set up the best working Religio that's ever been created. Valete.
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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:18 am

Salvete Lupe et Caesar,

Again no changes are required so that
we should focus on getting the Religio going. We need augures and priests. And we should try to organize this together with other communities to gain recognition beyond our Republic


Exactly how do you, Lupe and or Caesar, want to proceed with this? What is hindering you from accomplishing this?

(Tad Dudley, as he stated in a comment on RR Facebook, wants little study or inteligence involved with CDR. So can anyone declare themselves an augur or priest?)

Modern 'pagan' (classical polytheistic?) revival seems to be very much individualistic, not prone to tolerating any authority structure, with at best the possibility of sharing ideas.

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PS If anyone thinks 'we should ...', then Just Do It.
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Re: Preservation or Dissolution of Our Republic?

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:38 am

Brutus sal.

Here are my personal thoughts.

There is no room for politics as a core activity within the RR. There needs to be some administrators to keep the bills paid, assets running and to develop strategic planning at the organization level. This probably takes about 4-5 people as “magistrates”. So some managers and associate managers. In our bylaws we call these people consules or preatores. We could call these people whatever we want. It is kinda besides the point at the admin level.

As the organization grows. Admin grows to meet the needs of running the organization. This determines the size of admin. Not the other way around.

The vision of the RR shared by Philo and myself upon founding was never fully made manifest. We imagined very active and independent groups (collegia) focused on particular topics: CDR, re-enactment, Latin, etc. developing and being main hubs of activity. The heart of a strong online community that would evolve into local offline communities with time. These groups would share resources (manpower and physical) via the RR network infrastructure. Obviously this never occurred in a meaningful way. Probably because it was too hard for single ppl to form these groups, there was too much competition between some collegia with too little manpower to allow for effective competition, and politics became an activity to itself. All suboptimal.

The CDR is a critical component of what the RR is. It’s right there in the Declaration which I would not alter. I think we got that document right. I could write a small book on what I hope the restored CDR becomes. But to put it simply, you cannot mindfully restore a real tradition from the past without some awareness of the past tradition that existed. This takes some academic work. Now I think the RR may have a role in conducting this work and making it more accessible to the masses. The CDR was never a very centralized tradition as we understand it today with things such as the Catholic Church. Instead it was a tradition made up of two related but distinct parts. The privata and the publica. In private the head of every household determined what happened. There was freedom. Freedom just like what is seen and desired in many polytheistic communities today. The public sphere of the CDR was geared towards representing the community as a whole. This requires some consensus from this community as to what form this takes. In ancient times this was the Collegium Pontificum. In modern times maybe this involves the RR for those that view it as their community?

Another issue is that I think the RR can be more than just a CDR group. I think it behoves the CDR and the RR as a whole to make thriving places for Latinist, reenactor hobbists, those interested philosophy, or just ancient Roman culture in general. The RR would be much richer and the CDR and all other groups more viberant with independent but related groups being part of the RR.

In a nutshell, and upon initial impressions these are the general reforms I suggest:

I. Reduce administration to only what is required. The operation of the org is never dependent on one person. Holding a position is not an activity to itself. There is no “politics” as a primary activity in the RR.

II. Reboot all collegia and societas. Create a few main collegia as part of this reboot. But make sure they are well well supported. Provide simple governing rules, their own websites and make the forum only one place where activity occurs. Make the approval of new collegia as hoc based on community need not on the ambitions of fleeting individuals. In other words, the collegia as organizations are empowered and developed from day one as groups that can stand on their own. Maybe 4 of these groups exist for the foreseeable future. They associate with the RR to join a network of support and a larger community of ppl that share their interests to varying degrees. I would also reform the leadership of such groups to be simple small committees that lead by consensus. Again, to limit politics as an activity over actual Romanitas.

Obviously these are very preliminary ideas. But off the top of my head this is the direction I would explore first.
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