COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Tiberia Salvia Alba » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:42 am

their loyalty depended upon our uncritical deference. This attitude is childish at best, and treasonous at worst.

Я сказала это потому, что нас ещё никто не называл «бандой Сарматов», то есть если большинство народа проголосует против этого законопроекта, то получится, что они согласны с тем, что сказал квестор Сенека. Но если они согласны с этими утверждениями квестора Сенеки, то получается, что любая инициатива Сарматии, вне зависимости от ее содержания, будет плохой, посягающей на все что угодно, таким образом, на нас вешается ярлык «плохих парней», и что дальше, вы на объявите «провинцией зла»?
1) Я говорила о проблемах с языком, вы же говоря о Северусе не предложили ему помощь с языковыми ньюансами текста, Вы взяли и предложили совершенно новый текст закона. А это уже разные вещи. Относительно же того, что кто-то англоязычный должен читать законы до рассмотрения сената, я с этим не согласна, для мне кажется и существуют сенатские слушания, чтобы обсудить проекты и устранить ошибки.
2) Это не монополия. Все эта система должна на чем-то держаться, у неё должен быть некий фундамент, должна быть уже готовая база для реализации этого проекта. Единственное существующее на данный момент в Республике сообщество исторической реконструкции, это 11й Легион. Другого сообщества просто нет. Поэтому 11 легион и станет фундаментом для этого проекта. Если появится другое сообщество исторической реконструкции - другой легион, то он может быть включён в закон и также стать базой для проекта. В чем тут монополия? Или Вам больше нравится создавать оторванные от реальности проекты, которые в действительности не имеют под собой никакой основы? Тогда да, можно убрать из этой цепочки 11й Легион и вы получите нежизнеспособный проект. Кроме того, вы искажаете факты, мы реально стараемся сделать 11й легион межнациональным проектом, мы открыты, мы стараемся привлечь в него граждан Республики, чтобы легион был достоянием не только Сарматии, но и все Республики.
3) Вы вновь утрируете. Мы должны говорить о том, что высшие командиры легиона, по крайней мере на период, которым занимается 11й легион - середина 1 в. н.э.,были люди не из плебейского сословия. Должность примипила уже была равна всадническому сословию. Всадническое сословие было открыто для всех, это вопрос ценза, вот и все. Я вообще говорила Северусу убрать сословный вопрос из закона, но он настоял на этом сам, сказал, что это будет стимулировать граждан к получения всаднического статуса в Республике. То есть Северус руководствовался интересами Республики, а в итоге вы обвиняете его в ущемлении сословия плебеев. Разве Республика не заинтересована в том, чтобы как можно больше граждан получали статус всадников?
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Gaius Flavius Aetius » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:35 am

Oops, can't delete this one.
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Gaius Flavius Aetius » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:48 am

C. Falvius Aetius Quaest. Urb. salutem dat quam plurimam

I am finishing this year as a quaestor urbanis and I belive , that I’ve served well to the people of Rome within the confines of my duties, such as correcting the mistakes in citizens list. Yet, I don’t fell like finishing my cursus honorum and ask you to vote for me as Curule Aedile. I promise to work hard and make every single thing possible to make this magistrate the most effective one.


Curule Aediles are responsible for web mastering, which is not my strong side, and with economics of the Republic, which IS. I belive, that our trade system, emission of denarii and all our financial system is in need of reforms. We have too much of unsecured denarii per total amount of dollars. Our mercatus is just useless and we need to do something with all this mess. I believe, that I can help Roman State with this.

I also believe, that or Collegia need to be reformed, as they are actually were BORN dead and I will work hard with my future colleague and other magistrates on this problem. Same for ludi factions and ludi themselves as they can be much more interesting, than now.
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Airborne is an angel for 3 seconds, eagle for 2 minutes and draft horse for all the time after.
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:40 pm

Curio Sal.

Regarding the recent discussion on the leges in question, I wish to make a few statements.

I) I agree with the points made about Lex Cispia-Furia. It is one half of a lex, and needs it's counterpart to be productive.

II) Regarding Lex Flavia and it's discussion, I encourage debate but perhaps things are being viewed too personally. I can personally assure you, Alba, that no one considers Sarmatia as a bad province by any means. If, to say, that the lex Flavia was voted against, it's not a declaration against Sarmatia. It just means the citizens did not agree with this proposal before us. When Seneca used the terminology 'band of Sarmatians', he was using it to refer to your province as a whole. Not to degrade or besmircy your good name. I can vouch that Seneca speaks true when he talks about how he admires what you guys have accomplished in your growth. We have several times agreed in our meetings together that we need to emulate what you guys have done to get where you are now. And, if nothing else, be confident in the fact that I have always been a friend to Sarmatia. Do you truly believe I'd be saying these things if he was attacking Sarmatian honor?

III) Everybody has points that they are not the best in. Languages of other nations are often these. I'm certain sometimes my translations into Russian miss the mark and are not what I intended. This isn't something I can immediately change, nor do I expect your Russian to English translations to be perfect. But there is no shame in asking for help in this either to ensure those who don't speak English aren't misconstruing your points. I have offered my help before to Sarmatia and I'll do it again. If you wish it, I could help you with such a thing. You need only ask it of me.

IV) I propose a simple point. If Lex Flavia does not pass, I request a compromise. This is that the provinces of Transborealis Silva and Sarmatia work together to improve the lex, it's language and contents until both parties are happy with it and confident in it being presented to our esteemed Republic.

Valete Bene!

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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Gaius Flavius Aetius » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:47 pm

Fellow citizens, I’ve also read the speech of L. Livius Ani. Seneca and I also have some things to say about this. I will not speak about those laws, I will not ask you to vote uti rogas or antique I will do not such thing. But I have a question as Sarmatian and as magistrate.

Have you ever heard, that politician must watch for his words? Provincial guild of actors? BAND OF MERCENARIES? You don’t even try to use logic and call them like coffee two in one, this poor band of provincial mercenary actors. Ok, maybe they ARE actors, but since when Madison became New Center of Roman Republic to speak in such a snobbish way about people, who work hard as reenactors to provide Romanitas? Work in practice, not by sitting their backsides out in virtual curia! And those word about mercenaries are PURE disgrace! You speak about roman citizens, for the Gods sake! Or maybe you believe, that Sarmatians are not true Romans? Maybe you think, that Sarmatians are just some one-off barbarian foederati, who should sit in quiet and listen what REAL Romans are telling to do?

And also, as most of sarmatian men do serve in army at least for a year, this words offends us, sarmatian military veterans. We are not some bunch of bastards who kill for money, you know.

I am not familiar enough with this laws, to say are the good or not, but I can say for sure, that this way of speech, that Quaestor Seneca uses is full of disrespect, must be not allowed and must have serious consequences.
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Aula Flavia Philippa » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:15 pm

I think that we all need to calm down. I do not see something insulting in the words of the quaestor Seneca. Yes, the quaestor Seneca used a few hard-hitting comparisons that it would be better not to use, it was, at least, imprudent from his side. I sincerely believe that Seneca did this unintentionally, no one wanted to offend, including Sarmatia or Sarmatians.
The discord that we now have is a consequence of the misunderstanding caused by the inappropriately used vocabulary from the quaestor Seneca. If this is so, then it would be nice if the quaestor Seneca simply said this and that's all. This as for the words of the quaestor Seneca.
As for the law itself, I agreed and with the censor Severus, and with the consul Curio and the quaestor Seneca, in that the Furia-Cispia law should not be adopted. However, I am firmly convinced that the lex Flavia should be adopted. Attacks on Sarmatians and Sarmatia are groundless. Yes, we proposed this lex, and it is an occasion for pride, because this is an absolute unique phenomenon, Sarmatians were the first who invented it and formalized it in a legal manner. However, we did not monopolize the military sphere of the Roman Republic, on the contrary, we made it the property of all. The 11th Legion is the basis of the military sphere, because it is the only military formation in the Republic. If there are others, we will be happy, personally I will be happy if we have auxillary units, city cohorts or praetorians. But they are not. There is only the 11th Legion, so only he is on this list. But the 11th Legion is a collegium of the Roman Republic, it is open to everyone and for everyone. I am very closely connected with this process, the 11th Legion is so open for anyone, as far as possible, we collectively resolve everything in the Legion from the very beginning, but see how many people in the Roman Republic are interested in this in the Roman Republic, except Sarmatians? The basis for this law is the public collegium of the Roman Republic. Everything is open and transparent. Therefore, I see no reason to focus on this. I want to say something else. Imagine the situation, you have seeds, with these seeds you come to the field, this field is common, it is not sown, this field is empty. You ask the community that owns this field to allow you to plant your grains, on a site where no one before you worked, sowed and plowed, the community council gives you consent, but when going, someone from the community starts talking that you have bad grains, that the grains are not of your apple tree, but of the cherry tree, that you do not need to plant the seeds now, and then, and you are given many more instructions, so much that you generally decide not to do anything, because wanting to do better to everyone, it turns out that you are only doing worse to yourself. What does this parable teach us? It teaches us that you will not please everyone, there will always be those who are dissatisfied with something, there will always be those who want, that instead of apple trees cherries grow, but this does not mean that because of this you should quarrel or swear, just you need to pull yourself together, do what you must, and come what may.
I read the lex of quaestor Seneca. It does not have the most important thing - the essence. This is the same lex as the lex on colleges. In them there is no sense and basis, there is no life, a driving force, and it's sad. Quaestor Seneca know the laws, but the letter of the law and its spirit must be one, and what he is offered is an empty alternative, a letter without a spirit, the law without soul, it is already dead, not even born yet.
I call everyone, vote for the Lex Flavia.
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:43 pm

I agree with Aula Flavia Philippa on one very important point. There is no need for tempers in this discussion. Everyone is bound to have a different opinion, and express it in different ways. The best thing to do is to discuss and debate these points like the Romans would, with civility towards our fellow citizens and magistrates. Cooler heads prevail much more adeptly than fiery tempers.

So, whichever way you lean on this discussion, I ask everyone to keep a level head and a civil tone.
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Tiberius Flavius Nerva » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:48 pm

Quaestor Seneca very violently reacted to the lex proposed by reenactors. I'm not a mercenary, I'm not in band, I'm just engaged in historical reenactment, while I'm a citizen of our Republic. This lex does not bother me. I know for certain that this law is needed by those who are engaged in historical reenactment in the Republic. The law can always be amended if people come to a consensus. I call on all to vote for this lex. We will see how this lex works, and if necessary, we will amend it. The best way to decide who is right and who is wrong is to pass this lex, to look at it in action, and if suddenly what the quaestor Seneca was saying will not happen, it turns out that he was wrong. That's all.
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Tiberius Flavius Nerva » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:13 pm

The People and the Senate of Rome, I, Tiberius Flavius Nerva, stand for the post of quaestor of the Roman Republic.

I am a citizen of the Roman Republic for a long time. I became a citizen in the early days of the Republic. All this time I silently observed what was happening, however, the recent events led me to the conclusion that I should engage in public activities, show my civil position. The speech of Proconsul and Senator Titus Flavius Severus convinced me of this, however, the last straw was the inappropriate criticism from the quaestor Seneca.

I fully comply with the requirements for the post of quaestor of the Roman Republic.

I am a member of the Mitra Cult, I am a member of the 11th Legion, in addition I have quite good knowledge of Roman history, I have been engaged in historical reenactment for many years, besides, I am engaged in educational programs for children in the field of history and historical reenactment. I do not know very well English. I use online translators. I got education in finance and marketing.
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Re: COMITIA TRIBUTA SESSION V - IN SESSION (19 NOV - 04 DEC)

Postby Quintus Iulius Symphorianus » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:07 pm

Image

Blatant propagandising out of the way, it seems that it is incumbent upon me to make some sort of speech as to why (besides my fabulous posters) you should all vote for me. Now, that having been said even I'm not entirely sure why you should vote for me -- overlooking of course my charming, witty, and charismatic nature; not to mention my sparkling and youthful good lucks. As far as I've been able to glean from our website the role of quaestor is more or less that of a glorified secretary/accountant, not to mention that there seems to be presently six candidates (including myself) for six open seats. This means that if nobody else declares it would be impossible to *not* get elected; unless either:

(a. the citizens of the Republic dislike one of us so intensely that they would quite literally prefer a vacant seat to that candidate being in office.

or (b. the candidate in question is regarded as so stupendously incompetent that they aren't able to be trusted with simply assisting another magistrate.

I really, really hope you don't hate me that much enough for it to be (a. I haven't really done anything at all, let alone anything bad, so it would be distressing to see that enough people dislike me to actively vote down my candidacy. By that same token I would be disappointed if people thought "Quintus Symphorianus? He can't lace up his own caligae, let alone assist a magistrate get coffee." You see where I'm coming from, right? It's not that you should vote for me, it's that you shouldn't have a reason not to vote for me. I'm just, like, such a swell citizen that it would be a crime to not vote for me. Well... not literally. At least not at the moment anyway -- I haven't finished drafting the law yet. Putting all that aside however I'm bound by peer-press-- um, I mean, custom. bound by custom. I'm bound by custom to put forward a speech singing my own praises, which just so happens to be my favourite type of speech. So here goes:

Q. Iulius Symphorianus omnibus sal. (Correct Latin? Who knows! I think maybe.)

Please vote for me as Quaestor. I'd like to get the ball rolling on a political career within the Republic because I think the work we do here is important. I've served elsewhere (Byzantium Novum) as a minor public official and I managed not to set anything on fire, so I'm probably qualified to hold this position.

Vote for Quintus Iulius Symphorianus! What's the worst that could happen?


Alright, so that's out of the way. I'll also take the liberty of commenting on the proposed laws, because if I want to be a public official I should probably seem like I'm current on public affairs. I personally will be voting antiquo (am I allowed to vote directly? I'm not 100% sure how the government works. Honestly. I'm not joking, someone please help me) in regards to the Lex Cispia-Furia. Until an equivalent Collegia-oriented lex is put forward and passes through the Senate it's like tearing down a house and replacing it with just half of another house. And I think we can all agree that living in complete houses is just, like, the best you guys. Where the Lex Flavia is I will also vote antiquo. Many of the objections of L. Livius Seneca are completely valid IMO -- I have no personal differences with the Legio XI Claudia Pia Fidelis, but I firmly oppose elevating any already privately-established collegium in the manner prescribed by the proposed law. Any military organisation representing the res publica as a whole needs to be built from the ground-up rather than promoting an already-established organisation.

Valete,

Q. Iulius Symphorianus
Moribus antiquis stat res romana virisque. -- Ennius
Romanitas and pietas is not an RPG. -- L. Metilius Niger

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