PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

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PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:19 pm

Salvete Cives!

The Senate has been called to meet starting Oct 18, 2017. The voting phase of the meeting will occur from October 26 until November 4.

The agenda items have been publish in the announcement here: http://www.romanrepublic.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2167

In accordance with our Mos Maiorum, I hereby open this public space for the citizenry to debate, if they so wish, this seventh session of the Senate.

Your participation is valuable and I urge all citizens follow the Senatorial Proceedings at the link below and to speak their minds in this thread on any item they wish!

The Senate: Curia http://www.romanrepublic.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=4 proceedings may be viewed by all logged in Citizens.

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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:28 pm

Salvete Cives!

The Senate Session VII has started. The discussion de legibus proponentibus is now in progress.

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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Procula Valeria Messalla » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:10 am

Salvete Omnes!

I wish I still had speaking rights in the senate because I have much to say!

Why are we trying to be friends with people who hate us? Why are we begging friendship from an organization that has not lifted a finger to show us support?

Why are we saying we will help an organization that has this official stance [http://novaroma.org/nr/Competing_Organizations]?

Don't tell me, NR-non-corporate is different. If they are so different why don't they condemn this 'competing organization' habit. If they are different why can't they approach us? If they are different why are they not here with us in the Res Publica?

These proposals disgust me.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2202
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2186

I read it and want to vomit.

Citizens, we need new elections and fast if this is the direction our magistrates want to take our Res Publica.

Tribunes, please use your vetos! These proposals will only damage our Res Publica. We beg and grovel at the feet of a group that apparently has no invested interest in unity or friendship. We seek their good faith!? Hah! Joke.... Actions not words speak the loudest!
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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:12 am

Procula Valeria Messalla wrote:Salvete Omnes!

I wish I still had speaking rights in the senate because I have much to say!

Why are we trying to be friends with people who hate us? Why are we begging friendship from an organization that has not lifted a finger to show us support?

Why are we saying we will help an organization that has this official stance [http://novaroma.org/nr/Competing_Organizations]?

Don't tell me, NR-non-corporate is different. If they are so different why don't they condemn this 'competing organization' habit. If they are different why can't they approach us? If they are different why are they not here with us in the Res Publica?

These proposals disgust me.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2202
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2186

I read it and want to vomit.

Citizens, we need new elections and fast if this is the direction our magistrates want to take our Res Publica.

Tribunes, please use your vetos! These proposals will only damage our Res Publica. We beg and grovel at the feet of a group that apparently has no invested interest in unity or friendship. We seek their good faith!? Hah! Joke.... Actions not words speak the loudest!



Brutus Cen. sal.

Messalla, I know you and others were greatly hurt by the actions of NR. The proposals made in the Senate are not intended to brush away the pain you suffered. Please know this. I too share in your apprehension and hurt. The NR that existed from 2011 onwards is often a perversion of the virtues.

I do not support the proposal presented by Consul Curio for the reasons I outlined to the Senate.

Instead, I offer Lex Cispia-Iunia: Recognition of past magisterial service within Nova Roma and the Res Publica Romana as equivalent to present service in the Roman Republic (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2186), has only two purposes.

I. To acknowledge a common past we all share, the good and the bad. We all are passionate about history. We all understand the complexities. But we all should be able to see the elements of noble virtue that existed in the motivations that inspired NR in 1998. These are inspirational and deserve to be celebrated and held dear within our Respublica. As such, this proposal states that the RR views itself as an heir to this early dream.

II. To acknowledge the pioneering RR citizens who served during the first few years of mainstream Roman Restorationism in the late 90s and throughout the 2000s. Many of these citizens hold great experience, talent, and dedication. Their early work helped make the RR possible. For this let us recognize and grant them the honor they are due.
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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Sextus Decius Mus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:37 am

As much as I like the idea of NR-RR alliance, I understand the reservations.

Particularly the concern over entrenching the RR in an internal legal dispute of another NPO. Presumably best to veto the Declaration of Amicitia.

I'm okay with the Lex Cispia. But we should be careful to not hand over control of the RR to former NR leadership in the process. They got messed up for a reason. Poor leadership.
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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Procula Valeria Messalla » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:45 am

INTERCESSIO!
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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:25 am

Curio Sal.

As has become very apparent, the people are very against a unity between us and the other two groups (NR and RPR). When I posted about this months ago, announcing the agreement being reached, I received favorable response to this. I even spoke to plenty of private citizens who also thought it was a good direction. However, there is now clear evidence this is not the will of the people. And so I shall withdraw the proposal between us and the other two groups immediately. I apologize for the strife it caused. This was never my intention. My intention was only a united Roman community, one where we can focus less on our hatred for one another and more on getting things done. Building altars and temples to the gods, developing strong reenactment groups worldwide, hosting events with feasts and merry times in our provinces. This was the driving force behind this proposal. So once again, my apologies for the situation that arose from this.

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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Quintus Furius Camillus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:44 am

Procula Valeria Messalla wrote:INTERCESSIO!



Nope, I don't feel like doing this my dearie.
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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Gaius Valerius Scipio » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:06 am

From the looks of it there is still a lot of animosity between the RR and NR, which is completely understandable considering what has happened and the fact that we have bad blood between our organisations. What I considered this declaration to be about was a more cordial relation between our groups, in no way begging for friendship but an agreement between our groups to put an end to the negativity and animosity between us and as I said before move towards an era where infighting in minimalised and at best stopped completely (Audens blatant disrespect to our members being an example of such).

I never assumed that this declaration automatically assumed that we would help one group over the other or intervene in the NR's dispute between their factions, simply aspire to greater Pax Romana and understanding for our Romans across the world and groups.
Particularly the concern over entrenching the RR in an internal legal dispute of another NPO
I honestly don't think the the RR would involve ourselves with disputes such as this, that would be counter productive.

Though I was never part of NR I was unaware that we were now on some sort of Roman's suspicions list, it makes any sort of agreement we have had or from what I see the olive branch of peace now seem insincere. But I do think we should move forward with Lex cispia.
I am a supporter of peace and harmony in our Republic and the greater Roman community but we should be mindful that we don't forget the deeds done to us.
The gods command me to sanctify my every action, and I obey them with all my soul, and they assure me of great benefits from my enterprise, if only I persist.
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Re: PUBLIC DISCUSSION: Senate meeting (Session VII)

Postby Sextus Decius Mus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:49 am

Gaius Valerius Scipio wrote:From the looks of it there is still a lot of animosity between the RR and NR, which is completely understandable considering what has happened and the fact that we have bad blood between our organisations. What I considered this declaration to be about was a more cordial relation between our groups, in no way begging for friendship but an agreement between our groups to put an end to the negativity and animosity between us and as I said before move towards an era where infighting in minimalised and at best stopped completely (Audens blatant disrespect to our members being an example of such).



All solid points Gaius Valerius Scipio, but I failed to see why such a declaration was needed.

Where relations between NR-non-corporate, RPR and RR not already cordial? Except for a few lone wolves (Such as Audens) it certainly seemed this way in my eyes.

Lex Cispia-Iunia is important because it results in a real tangible action.

It seems to have become vogue for Roman Groups to shout, "unity and cooperation", and then do nothing to back it up. I think these popular calls for unity actually started once the Roman Republic Declaration, calling for such unity after bad behavior from NR, became popular on Facebook. Lots of groups jumped on the bandwagon it seems.

Thing is, only one group has really done anything.

The RR started the calls for unity and cooperation.
The RR magistrates such as Consul Curio actually went out to try to cement cooperation.
The RR now follows up with action by recognizing past service in other groups as equivalent to service in this organization.

The shouts for peace and unity are nice. But actually doing something to make this happen is 100x nicer. Hopefully, other groups continue to follow our example in this regards. Action or it didn't happen.
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