Improving the way collegia are founded

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Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Gaius Cominius Laenas » Thu May 11, 2017 2:54 am

Ave!

I have been thinking about how we can improve and strengthen the collegia founded in the future. I have a few preliminary proposals.

i. All future collegia should be sponsored by at least three (?) citizens. -- There is no sense founding a collegia that has no support from the citizen body. In ancient Rome a collegium had a fixed minimum number of supporters, usually three, so this requirement would be historical. I propose that every citizen looking to found a collegium submit a written document stating names of citizen sponsors.

ii. All future collegia should be taxed in denarii -- This could be used as a metric to determine the activity of a collegia.

iii. A set of standard bylaws should be written up -- These standard bylaws would be applied to most collegia and edited by the groups when needed. I think the writing of the bylaws is the most cumbersome part of founding a collegia. A standard version that can be copied and pasted would be helpful towards lessening this burden.
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Thu May 11, 2017 4:18 am

I like most of these changes. One question regarding the taxation on collegia: Would it be a taxation on the founding, an annual taxation, or both?

Taxation on the collegia at this point could be troubling, given the recent events that have transpired. I believe in cutting the collegia that aren't being used anymore, but we also don't want to place further burden upon the functioning ones either. I believe this is something the citizens should voice their opinions on.

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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Fri May 12, 2017 9:11 am

Salvete!

The independence of the collegia should not be touched, neither by imposing a set of bylaws on thdm nor by taxation. The way they are currently organized was one of the greatest ideas of our founders. It allows other Roman organizations to constitute themselves as collegia within the Republic as independent institutions. This has a great potential for the future.
We would gain nothing in putting any burden on the collegia, but destroy this great concept in our Republic.

Optime Valete!
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Fri May 12, 2017 2:09 pm

Salve Lupe!

I agree about the taxation. But I don't think Laenas was meaning that we had to standardize bylaws. How I understood it (and I could be mistaken), was that we should provide sample bylaws that people are free to change to fit their needs. It would be a good way to assist Collegium founders in the process.
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Lucius Livius Seneca » Fri May 12, 2017 4:06 pm

L. Livius quaest. cons. C. Cominio quaest urb. aliisque in Foro sal.

I agree that the foundation process for collegia could use some adjustments. Regarding your proposals:

  1. A minimum of three members is essential. Historically this number has always been a prerequisite for any association because: (a) one person isn't a community; (b) with two people, when one is appointed leader, he rules over a single subject, which again, isn't a community but some odd form of bondage; (c) hence, three are necessary to have both a leader and a body of members.
  2. Taxation is one way to test/stimulate activity, but to my knowledge, no collegium has yet established any regular revenues. Until we see that happening, perhaps there are other metrics that might suffice, e.g., monthly post counts?
  3. A working template of bylaws is an excellent tool to help streamline what you correctly identify as the most demanding part of establishing a collegium. Perhaps the Curule Aedilitas can commission the Collegium Legis Romanae to put something together?
Excellent thoughts, amice. Thank you for sharing them.

Vale.
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Fri May 12, 2017 5:41 pm

A template for bylaws is a good idea as long as its use is not mandatory.
Currently we have to rewrite our outdated bylaws in the Collegium Philosophiae. A template would be helpful.
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Titus Flavius Severus » Fri May 12, 2017 10:41 pm

Severus Cen. sal.

I am glad that this topic was finally raised publicly. I have discussed this topic on several occasions privately with certain people, so I am glad that I can now state my thoughts on this issue publicly.

To begin with, I would like to express my opinion on what was said before by our honorable citizens.

At first. In my opinion, the taxation of collegia is completely unacceptable for a number of reasons. So, it is necessary to create a whole new system of taxation of this kind of "legal entities", since the number of members in colleges is uneven, for justice, a progressive scale of taxation should be applied. And in general, individual details and disputes will cause the very order, the system of taxation and sanctions for execution, it will so burden and complicate the system that it will be easier for citizens to create a separate forum or group on Facebook and use it as a platform for their club, and understandable.

We must create a simple and understandable order. It seems advisable not to collect taxes with the collegia, but to create conditions for registration, which will filter out the dummy groups. To do this, it is necessary to establish the minimum required number of founding citizens, as well as the minimum contribution in denarii, and in addition, the existence of a by-laws containing the minimum requirements for such a document. Once the collegium is established, the government does not interfere in its activities in any way, except in cases where it is stated in the collegium's by-laws itself, or for the resolution of disputes.

Government control should be minimized.

The collegia must have a government-independent right to self-organization and self-determination.

The key collegia, as well as the most active collegia, should receive financial assistance (direct or indirect) in denarii. The procedure for providing this assistance, as well as its form, should be determined in a normative legal act.

Such a regulatory act should be only one. This is done so that any citizen could read just one document, and clearly understand how the whole system works, and not look for information about this system, which is often scattered across various legal acts.

We must understand that this system is a platform for various activities and projects. The more collegia are independent of outside interference, the more they are stable, and their members are calm for the forces and resources invested in them. The situation when one consular edict puts the whole system of collegia upside down, just is not permissible! Otherwise, no serious organization will dare to use our platform, since its interests will never be protected from the arbitrariness of a consul or praetor, after an annual change of officials. The only normative and legal act that can make changes in the life of collegia and their status is the Lex. This is the Republic of the Roman People, and only the Roman people have the right to decide whether to change something or not, not the will of one or two magistrates. If the board does not violate any laws, then it should be protected from any outside interference.

Valete bene!
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Fri May 12, 2017 11:36 pm

I agree in principle to Severus. I only have one question. In this system you are proposing, how do we identify and deal with Innactive Collegia? As in completely dead collegia. And how do we stop a Collegium from becoming controlled by One person that abuses their position?
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Titus Flavius Severus » Sat May 13, 2017 4:42 pm

Salve!

Philo, amiceI was expecting your question, thank you for asking it. Let's first understand what a college is? In my opinion, the collegia is not just a club of interests, but a form of self-organization of the citizens of the Roman Republic for achieving the statutory goals and objectives. Thus, the collegium is created by citizens to realize their own interests. The collegia are created by citizens for citizens. Honestly, I do not understand why the government should worry about the activity in the collegia. This is opposed by the very spirit and purpose of the existence of collegia. Is the state of Maine interested in activity (or lack of it) in Nova Roma? Of course not. The State of Maine only creates a regulatory and legal platform for the existence of associations of citizens, interfering in the activities of such associations only in certain cases (violation of the law, etc.) Our Republic should create the necessary platform, but not interfere in the affairs of collegia - associations of citizens.

In addition, we can approach this issue from the other side. Let's define what is the activity of the collegia? Is this something that should be seen on the forum in the form of posts? How many posts should be written then, by how many people? If for collegium write constantly by three people, then it is considered an active collegium? And if there are three hundred people in the collegium, and only three people write, ie. one percent, this is no longer an active college? People create colleges for themselves, not for the state. If there is no activity there and for a long time nothing changes, then the members of the collegia agree with this, i.e. all suits everything. If one of the members of the collegium does not like this, then he can fix it, and for this you do not need to be the head or officer of the collegia, you just need to want to correct something, especially since the charters of the colleges give clear mechanisms for this, leadership. If people are not interested in working within the collegia, it is their choice, their decision, and the goverment should not get involved with these edicts, because these edicts still do not have any sense, as time has shown.

If someone does not agree with this, then let's directly force to include in the collegiа by-laws provisions that "the collegia should actively show to the Senate and any Magistrate its active activity, otherwise we undertake to self-dissolve." The colleges are created by citizens not to show or not show any activity, they are created to realize the existing goals and objectives.

The only tool that, in my opinion, is acceptable for the state in this case is the stimulation of the work of key, active or most numerous collegia through their financial support. Such support implies that the activity of the collegium facilitates either the attraction of new citizens to the Republic or performs other socially useful work (for example, the Latin language collegium translates the constitution or other documents, names, for the whole Roman people).

I apologize for the comparison, for more part of the population it will not be clear, however, all these conversations about the activity / inactivity of the boards remind me of the Soviet party system, when no one was interested, do citizens get what they want, and the main thing was that from the side Everything looked beautiful and good. By creating a normative legal platform for the collegia, we should not pursue the interests of creating a beautiful sign in the form of statistics statistics posts in the forum, we should maximally help citizens realize their interests.

Concerning the leadership of the collegiа. This is not the business of the government. This matter is purely members of the collegia. The presence of one tyrant can hamper the work of the collegium, however, do not you think that at the head of the collegium there can be two tyrants who will fight for the steering wheel, completely slowing down the work?

In addition, let's be honest, the head of the collegium is engaged only in the overall organization of work, the work itself is created / done by members of the board. Whatever the leader, it does not stop me from doing what I like. I did not agree with how it was created, and how activities were organized in the Collegium Militarium, however, it did not in any way prevent me from working for it at the beginning of it existence.

We, the officials of the Republic, must create such a platform that will involve real citizens and future citizens to incorporate their organizations on the basis of our platform, we need to make this platform attractive, simple and convenient, and not to repair obstacles with a bunch of demands, restrictions and bureaucratic routine. Since such actions we will only achieve that citizens will use other platforms outside the Republic, and will be absolutely right in doing so.

Vale bene,
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Re: Improving the way collegia are founded

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Sat May 13, 2017 5:57 pm

Makes sense Severe. The only issue I have is with Forum Space. The State of Maine (using your example) is not obligated to make any free space for the RR (for example). We have to pay to be here. The metaphore breaks down at that point because we will be giving this space for free to them, yet there might be times when the collegia are dead and we have just a bunch of empty forum spaces without anyone using it.

Maybe we shouldnt care, maybe we should have a mechanism to deal with that, Id like to hear your opinion.

Till now this is my only remaining issue in this question and I would like to hear your opinion on it.
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