A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

The social and political heart of the respublica community

Moderators: Publius Iunius Brutus, Marcus Flavius Celsus, Lucius Curtius Philo, Caeso Cispius Laevus, Lucius Aurelius Curio, Titus Flavius Severus

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Caeso Cispius Laevus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:52 pm

Sal.

My proposal does not involve the collegia.
User avatar
Caeso Cispius Laevus
Praetor Peregrinus
Praetor Peregrinus
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:37 am
Location: Britannia

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:54 pm

And I do not think asking a popular vote to give the CC legitimacy to override our institutions is a good call. The Gracchi tried that... I would support the CT be called so that the APPROPRIATE INSTITUTIONS hear what they have to say and THEY decide. The Senate will hear the Comitia Tributa. The CC will hear the Comitia Tributa. The Censura will hear the comitia tributa. And the proper channels will decide.

That is acceptable. Not the overriding of all our institutions (and with that our Checks and Balances) to justift CC takeover in a matter that is not theirs.

Caeso Cispius Laevus wrote:Sal.

My proposal does not involve the collegia.



I stand corrected regarding that. Sorry
"Ignis aurum probat" - Seneca
C. Curtius L. f. Vot. Philo Aurelianus
User avatar
Gaius Curtius Philo
Propraetor
Propraetor
Senator
Senator
Feroniae Sacerdos
Feroniae Sacerdos
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Lictor Curiatus Magister
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:56 pm
Location: Praia Grande, São Paulo, Brazil

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Caeso Cispius Laevus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:57 pm

Sal.

Nothing is being overridden. The CC has full legitimacy to invest all the powers stated in my proposal. These are powers that were already granted by the people and their assemblies.

Granted, it may step on toes. More reason to get the direct consent of the people.
User avatar
Caeso Cispius Laevus
Praetor Peregrinus
Praetor Peregrinus
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:37 am
Location: Britannia

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:04 pm

Caeso Cispius Laevus wrote:Sal.

Nothing is being overridden. The CC has full legitimacy to invest all the powers stated in my proposal. These are powers that were already granted by the people and their assemblies.

Granted, it may step on toes. More reason to get the direct consent of the people.


The CC has a precedent of not governing. It is a non-elected guardian of the RR. Using it to act in instances of government is the equivalent of declaring martial law. It can be done, surr, but it isnt a precedent I want to make. We should deal with things through the proper channels. The CC should not interfeer unless strictly necessary. And it is not necessary now.

Using the Popular Vote to justify CC action creates its own dangers and makes it so that charismatic people could easilt topple our entire organization by asking for strength in numbers to legitimize CC action. The People is only one part of the entire equation that makes our system balanced and responsible, protecting ALL citizens (not just a majority). We have made it in a way that makes it very difficult for anyone to unilaterally make decisions. We cannot create precedents that undo that.

Again, Im in favor of a popular vote being used to gauge the will of the People, but having the PROPER CHANNELS decide on this, not the CC in an ad hoc fashion.
"Ignis aurum probat" - Seneca
C. Curtius L. f. Vot. Philo Aurelianus
User avatar
Gaius Curtius Philo
Propraetor
Propraetor
Senator
Senator
Feroniae Sacerdos
Feroniae Sacerdos
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Lictor Curiatus Magister
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:56 pm
Location: Praia Grande, São Paulo, Brazil

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:08 pm

Curio Sal.

Yes, it would step on toes, majorly. Not to mention set a bad precedent. She was a Director and thus should have been familiar with our bylaws. Regardless of the waves made, she shouldn't be treated any differently than any other citizen that has resigned. That undermines equality of our citizens and the fairness we show to all. That is not something I believe in, at all. She resigned of her own free will, she should be treated like any other person who took that course of action.

Vale Bene

L. Aurelius Curio
User avatar
Lucius Aurelius Curio
Consul
Consul
Governor of Transborealis Silva
Governor of Transborealis Silva
Lictor Curiatus
Lictor Curiatus
Senator
Senator
Augur
Augur
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Quintus Furius Camillus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:27 pm

Caeso Cispius Laevus wrote:Sal.

Cassia did great work. I hope the CC would be happy to give her the benefit of the doubt.

The community is too small to let such trivialities come between us.

I would be interested to see if the Tribunes agree. Maybe the Plebs can vote on if they support this proposal in principle. Possibly this would assist and guide the CC moving forward?



SALVETE!

My dear Praetor, I can see your concerns. But I will speak without inhibition.

Cassia disrespected every citizen of the Republic. She picked fight with ease and then brought her personal squabbles here for us to enjoy. She acted without professionalism in resigning. In founding the corrupt and spiteful RA protest group (come now let's call it what it is) she further showed only selfish disregard for our organization and institutions.

Citizens! I have a bleeding heart for populism. It is my weakness. So I propose this instead;

CAMILLUS' GENEROUS ULTIMATUM TO C. CASSIA LONGINA

Cassia if you apply for citizenship before May 7 and upon approval of said citizenship submit an application for a Collegium associated with RA within 10 days of your citizenship being approved. I will find it in my heart the will to call the Concillium Plebis, if my colleague is willing to join me of course.

At this meeting I will put the original proposal suggested by our benevolent Praetor Laevus to the people. Then it's in the hands of the CC.

I will make one edit regarding his proposal. You will get no denarii. You forfeited that to the Senate. You also need to pay your fine of 30 denarii. If you acquire the qualifying denarii then you should be readmitted to the Ordo Equester.

If you do not reapply for citizenship before the mentioned date let this issue die forever. In this case you obviously have no consideration for those who are advocating for you here. So ducky, if you go down that road, we should really not waste another moment on you.

I will not call the CPleb based on a wish of Cassia reapplying. She makes the first move now or this issue goes to sleep. Let's stop crying over wasted milk. We have important things to do!

VALETE!
Quintus Furius Camillus
Plebeian Tribune
Plebeian Tribune
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:50 pm

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:33 pm

Quintus Furius Camillus wrote:
Caeso Cispius Laevus wrote:Sal.

Cassia did great work. I hope the CC would be happy to give her the benefit of the doubt.

The community is too small to let such trivialities come between us.

I would be interested to see if the Tribunes agree. Maybe the Plebs can vote on if they support this proposal in principle. Possibly this would assist and guide the CC moving forward?



SALVETE!

My dear Praetor, I can see your concerns. But I will speak without inhibition.

Cassia disrespected every citizen of the Republic. She picked fight with ease and then brought her personal squabbles here for us to enjoy. She acted without professionalism in resigning. In founding the corrupt and spiteful RA protest group (come now let's call it what it is) she further showed only selfish disregard for our organization and institutions.

Citizens! I have a bleeding heart for populism. It is my weakness. So I propose this instead;

CAMILLUS' GENEROUS ULTIMATUM TO C. CASSIA LONGINA

Cassia if you apply for citizenship before May 7 and upon approval of said citizenship submit an application for a Collegium associated with RA within 10 days of your citizenship being approved. I will find it in my heart the will to call the Concillium Plebis, if my colleague is willing to join me of course.

At this meeting I will put the original proposal suggested by our benevolent Praetor Laevus to the people. Then it's in the hands of the CC.

I will make one edit regarding his proposal. You will get no denarii. You forfeited that to the Senate. You also need to pay your fine of 30 denarii. If you acquire the qualifying denarii then you should be readmitted to the Ordo Equester.

If you do not reapply for citizenship before the mentioned date let this issue die forever. In this case you obviously have no consideration for those who are advocating for you here. So ducky, if you go down that road, we should really not waste another moment on you.

I will not call the CPleb based on a wish of Cassia reapplying. She makes the first move now or this issue goes to sleep. Let's stop crying over wasted milk. We have important things to do!

VALETE!


Agreed. Then the CC decides if it wants to step up on this issue or leave it to the competent bodies. Either way the People will be heard.
"Ignis aurum probat" - Seneca
C. Curtius L. f. Vot. Philo Aurelianus
User avatar
Gaius Curtius Philo
Propraetor
Propraetor
Senator
Senator
Feroniae Sacerdos
Feroniae Sacerdos
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Lictor Curiatus Magister
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:56 pm
Location: Praia Grande, São Paulo, Brazil

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:52 pm

Curio Sal.

I agree with Camillus proposal. As stated many times before, I'm not against her returning so long as it's done the right way. If she initiates the return and follows the plan outlined by Camillus, I will fully support this going forward.

Valete Bene!

L. Aurelius Curio
User avatar
Lucius Aurelius Curio
Consul
Consul
Governor of Transborealis Silva
Governor of Transborealis Silva
Lictor Curiatus
Lictor Curiatus
Senator
Senator
Augur
Augur
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:38 am

Salvete Omnes

I support my colleague's proposal.

P. Sextius Laevus
Tribunus Plebis Minor
'Fiat Lux! Fiat Vita!'
User avatar
Publius Sextius Laevus
Plebeian Tribune
Plebeian Tribune
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:12 am

Re: A Petition for the Reinstatement of Gaia Cassia Longina as a Citizen of the Res Publica Romana

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:23 am

Tribune Camillus proposal is probably the best way to go in this case.

However there is something that I do not understand in general: Why do citizens need to be members of this corporation? I thought the Republic is independent from it. We want to be a community of all Romans, not members of a Canadian non profit corporation. Most of us do not even fall under Canadian jurisdiction due to lack of Canadian citizenship or residency. Canadian laws do not reach beyond the border.

Citizenship should be forever without the possibility of resignation. In ancient Rome nobody could be stripped of his citizenship or resign it. Not even a proscription made him a non-citizen.
The Roman-Catholic Church, the last institution of the Roman Empire, has also no way that somebody can become a Non-Roman-Catholic. Once baptized, it is forever. One can be excommunicated, but remains Catholic (i.e. Roman). If one decides to return to the Church, it is not possible to get baptized again. One needs to follow canonical law to receive absolution and reenter communion.

We should aim for having a register of all Romans, not a list of members of an association. If Cassia returns, she is still the same human being. How can she be a different Roman citizen? This is not an RPG where the in-game character gets killed and you simply create a new one and start over.
We are administrating Romanitas, the Roman nation, not an association or a corporation. The corporation is only an institution within our Republic. It is not the Republic and not the Roman nation.
User avatar
Gaius Florius Lupus
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:33 am
Location: Colombia

PreviousNext

Return to Main Forum