Tunica Laticlavia

The social and political heart of the respublica community

Moderators: Publius Iunius Brutus, Caeso Cispius Laevus, Titus Flavius Severus, Marcus Flavius Celsus, Lucius Aurelius Curio, Lucius Curtius Philo

Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:33 pm

Salvete omnes!

Below I have two examples from the TV series "Rome" of a tunica laticlavia worn by Roman senators.
(M. T. Cicero)
1.jpg
1.jpg (27.94 KiB) Viewed 397 times

and
(Pompeius Magnus)
2.jpg
2.jpg (22.3 KiB) Viewed 397 times

Which one is correct?
Valete!
C. Florius Lupus
User avatar
Gaius Florius Lupus
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:33 am
Location: Kenya

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:47 pm

I think twice are correct, if I not wrong,
the tunica of Cicero seems to be a classic tunica senatorialis
the tunica of Pompeius Magnus seems to be a tunica magistralis

Image
Lucius Metilius Niger
 

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:01 pm

Image

me with a toga praetexta and tunica magistralis.
with Aemilia Rufa, the Maxima Vestalis of CPR des Gaules and Pharia. (she is member here)
Lucius Metilius Niger
 

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:46 pm

This is interesting! I have been searching an answer to that question for so many years.
I have never heard about this tunica angusticlavia (subarmalis version) before. What is the difference between this version and the normal equestrian tunic?

And what is the difference between the two tunicae laticlaviae? Was the tunica magistralis worn by active magistrates and the tunica senatorialis by former magistrates that only held a seat in the senate?
Then the "Rome" TV series would be correct. Pompeius was consul at that time together with Metellus Scipio who also wears this type of tunic in the same scene, while Cicero was an ex-consul not holding any office besides senator.

(Q. Caecilius Metellus Scipio Nasica)
3.jpg
3.jpg (28.96 KiB) Viewed 386 times


Gratias tibi, Metili Niger! This explains it all. Finally my question is answered.

Optime Vale!
User avatar
Gaius Florius Lupus
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:33 am
Location: Kenya

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:46 pm

Salvete!

Great thread, I too learned something new! Much appreciated!
User avatar
Publius Iunius Brutus
Censor
Censor
Senator
Senator
Martis et Minervae Sacerdos
Martis et Minervae Sacerdos
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Lictor Curiatus Magister
Augur
Augur
 
Posts: 1246
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:54 am
Location: Nova Gallia

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:32 pm

here others ressources for togas and tunicas
I think these roman traditional costumes (magistrats, pontifs, etc) can be very useful for our Sacra Publica rituals.

Image

Image

Image

Image
Lucius Metilius Niger
 

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:59 pm

Salve, Niger!
I have a few questions:
  • What means "subarmalis version" for the tunica angusticlavia? I have never seen this before.
  • How can there be a toga praetexta for equites? If an eques becomes a curule magistrate, which would entitle him to a toga praetexta, he would also have acquired senatorial rank before. A nobody cannot become a curule magistrate right away.
Vale!
User avatar
Gaius Florius Lupus
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:33 am
Location: Kenya

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:14 pm

I don't know yet .. ^^ :?
Lucius Metilius Niger
 

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Lucia Horatia Adamas » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:56 am



L. Horatia Adamas C. Florio Lupo L. Metillio Nigro omnibusque S.P.D.

The actual tunica (not the diagram) pictured below is reasonably accurate, but the angusti clavi should be moved outward. I have seen surviving examples of Egyptian period tunicae angusticlaviae in which the stripes (in green) are offset further. It would not surprise me if this were done so that the toga did not conceal these important marks of rank. Overall, the tunica could be either in the 'pillowcase' shape of the fabric tunica, or the T-shape of the diagrams and the Egyptian ones in the Metropolitan Museum (NYC) which I viewed some years ago. During the classical period, the men's tunica was girt so that it did not fall below the knees, and was 'cut' (not literally) so that the sleeves (whether or not T-form) did not extend below the elbows. Later on those provisions were altered, even ignored.

There is some question about the position of the latus clavus as to whether there was one centered stripe or two over the shoulders, but my sources seem to indicate a single centered stripe, and none on the hemline or sleeve edges, ever. Surely the golden borders on the stripes in one photographic image (Pompey) are inaccurate.

The subarmalis is a short overtunic which is worn between the lorica and the tunica. It is intended to prevent damage to the tunica itself from the lorica, whether by staining or tearing. Probably one did not wear one's best tunica in battle…

I don't know of any difference between ordinary senatorial garb and that of magistrates, and I have done a fair bit of research into ancient clothing and own some major works on the subject.

As for the toga, the opinion of Léon Heuzey, a noted French archaeologist after whom a street has been named (à Paris, peut-être) and many other scholars, the Republican period toga was close to semicircular in form, and worn single ply. In the Imperial period, it was worn mostly, but not completely, doubled over and was considerably larger, plus was almost circular in form. There was no border on the straight edge. None. That was a characteristic of the Etruscan predecessor of the toga, shown in the famous sculpture of the Arringatore, which has the border only on the straight edge, not the curved one, whereas the classical Roman toga had the border solely on the curved edge, none on the straight one.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation on this subject abroad, among Roman enthusiasts and even among authors on the topic. Some like to follow the opinion of Lillian Wilson, who believes that the Republican toga was shaped like a trapezoid atop a shallow bowl (as apparently in the large diagram below), but many prefer the much simpler solution given by Heuzey, the Archaeological Institute of America, and others. The simplest solution often is the best one.

Obiter, Lupe, I seem to recall that the equites wore the trabea...


Valete!
Lucia Horatia Adamas
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:20 am

Re: Tunica Laticlavia

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:57 pm

Gratias tibi ago, Horatia Adamas!
This makes perfectly sense. I always wondered how the stripes could be seen under the armor. But if they are moved to the border of the sleaves in the tunica subarmalis, they always remain visible. Is there a subarmalis version for the senatorial ranks like the tribunus laticlavius or the legatus too?

And a trabea for the equites? Would this not be excessive? It would make them look more impressive than a senator. The trabea was usually red or purple, if I remenber well. I would have expected them to wear a plain white toga for formal occasions.

The golden threads on the stripe on Pompey's toga in the Rome TV series may not be backed up by much evidence, but it is not necessarily false. It would befit well a character who calls himself "Magnus". This was probably the message that the costume designers had in mind.
User avatar
Gaius Florius Lupus
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:33 am
Location: Kenya

Next

Return to Main Forum