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Roman Republic: Res publica Romana • View topic - Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

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Re: Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Postby Gaia Cassia Longina » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:24 pm

Well, if I was acting P. Senatus, I would not really have a say - just a vote. And I would personally always aim for trying to fix the Republic. Make the troops loyal to the State again. Punish greed and extortion. Replace magistrates guilty of accepting bribes, corruption, etc. More representation for foreigners to understand how and why the government needs to change. Maybe stop with wars for a while - the state has enough money, and its not money that is the issue. Needless to say, I would lean towards a version of Plato's Republic, where money is not the main goal, but the happiness and prosperity of the Republic.

And if Caesar did not die, well, I probably would have joined my ancestors and well, "took action." I do not condone violence, but I tend to be a little bias when it comes to this. Living under tyranny can be liked to slavery. And isn't being free the best choice? Antiochian philosophy would agree!
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Re: Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Postby Gaius Valerius Scipio » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:36 am

I think the collapse of the Res Publica at the time was necessary, the people themselves had become tired of constant infighting between generals who thought they should rule, almost the last century of the Republic was simply a shift from one ruthless ruler who had power over the senate to the next, Marius, Sulla and Caesar to name a few.

Though I respect Brutus for staying true to his families heritage and restore the republic, the very fact that the people of Rome were silent shows that the ideals that had shaped Rome had died. Maybe if the problems and corruption within the senate had been addressed a few decades earlier and issues with proconsuls continuously having consecutive terms of office the Republic may have survived longer. Unfortunately Caesar and Augustus brought a whole swathe of unforeseen situations to the forefront of Republic ideals and challenged the ideas of whether or not democracy was the key.

"The secret of happiness is freedom. The secret of freedom is courage." Thucydides the greek historian stated this and although he lived four centuries before the fall of the Republic it still rings true I guess. Brutus had courage and the freedom to bestow what he considered happiness upon the people of Rome, yet some people are willing to sacrifice their freedom for security and safety. Something the common people thought was necessary and could come from Caesar and Augustus.

I guess the answer is for history to decide but in my opinion the end of the Res Publica was a necessary evil though its continuation would have been preferable.
The gods command me to sanctify my every action, and I obey them with all my soul, and they assure me of great benefits from my enterprise, if only I persist.
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Re: Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Postby Tiberius Publicius Gracchus » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:37 pm

My opinion is that when you have a society with vast disparities of wealth between the rich and the poor, and the rich have all the political power and use that power to further enrich themselves, what you have there is not a true republic, but more of an oligarchy. If such disparities did not exist then the conflict between the Optimates and Populares could not have taken place. From what I understand, there were large groups of landless poor living in the city of Rome, and the Senate had done nothing to address that problem until Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus had come along. The Republic could have evolved into a more egalitarian and democratic society, but I get the idea that that is not what the Senatorial class wanted. Not to disparage the Roman Republic, I believe that the more people that are involved in the decision making process the better, and even an oligarchy is preferable to a one man dictatorship. But there were problems.
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Re: Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:13 pm

Politically, I think the traditional Roman republic had to withdraw from the idea that Rome was less a city isolated from the world, "against" the rest of the world, but the center of a universal empire, composed of myriads of peoples and cultures. The majority of these people lived in the East, in ancient cities of thousands of years, with ancient cultures, more ancient than Roma. So I think of the great ambitious men like Pompey, Caesar or Mark Antony, Augustus also imagined, and dreamed, from Eastern and Hellenistic idea of "divine kingship" if Rome became an Empire, one man carried to heaven by the gods, was to symbolize and represent a Princeps, first of all Roman (existing Senate always). For these ambitious men, these Imperatores generals, their ultimate reference appears to have been Alexander the Great, I think.
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Re: Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:55 am

Yes I think the end of Res Publica was necessary. Whatever it was who happened by History.
I don't know if a good thing if ResPublica restored today. It's very dangerous, I've explain that somewhere here
Have a nice day
Valete,
Lucius Metilius Niger
 

Re: Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Postby Gaia Cassia Longina » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:39 pm

The idea of a Republic can never be dangerous, as you can read in my previous arguments. If the people within the Republic get greedy or disregard the Mos Maiorum or disrespect others, that is the time when a community begins to fall apart. I respectfully disagree with your opinion - but if you care to elaborate more, please do.

I will always disagree with an Empire. As you say, staying true to your family heritage is important: so I stick to my Cassian heritage and stay with the Republic!

*

Je suis désolé pour mon français, j'étudié 5 ans à l'école, mais ce n'est toujours pas parfait! L'idée d'une République ne peut jamais être dangereuse, comme vous pouvez le lire dans mes arguments. Si les gens de la République deviennent gourmands ou ignorent le Mos Maiorum ou manquent de respect envers les autres, c'est le moment où une communauté commence à s'écrouler. Je suis respectueusement en désaccord avec votre opinion - mais si vous voulez expliquer, s'il vous plaît.
Gaia Cassia Longina
 

Re: Was the end of the Res Publica necessary?

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:57 pm

Lucius Metilius Niger
 

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