Bylaws of the Collegium

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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:43 pm

I agree with Lupus. Sincerely I think this question has dragged on for a long time and it seems a bit of an over complication of something simple. By that I mean no disrespect to the latinists of our community. Lupus just presented an argument better based so far. I have yet to see any good amount of evidance pointing at collegiarus as the norm...
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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:45 am

Salvete Collegiarii

It's time to settle this. Begging the Modertors' benevolent acquiescence, I put before the Collegium the proposal to use 'Collegiarius' for 'member' of the Collegium. Please vote:
1. Uti Rogas - for the use of 'Collegiarius' for 'member'
2. Antiquo - for the use of 'Collega' for 'member'
3. Abstineo - for don't care.

In the Roman tradition, a tie vote will be counted as 'Antiquo'.

After this is settled, the otherwise corrected bylaws will be set before the collegium for a final look and then a vote.

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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Lucia Horatia Adamas » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:48 am



L. Horatia Adamas omnibus S.P.D.

Well, since we now have to vote on this…Minerva sapientiam in nos infundat. In tabellá meá scribo 'V,' id est, VTI ROGAS. I would be perfectly happy with 'socius / socia,' meaning a member of a learnèd society, or sodalis, a member of any type of society, but 'collega' carries implications that go beyond membership in a discussion group, aka a special interest group. This word is derived from 'con / cum' + 'lego,' more or less 'one selected along with.' The OLD lists it as being applied to a fellow member of a political office or of a priestly one; secondarily, it is a colleague or associate in an unofficial capacity. Here we have common interests, but are not true colleagues, so I recommend a choice other than 'collega' for 'member' of this (or any similar) group.

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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:59 pm

Salvete Omnes

To provide time for thoughtful discernment, voting on 'collegiarius' vs. 'collega' by Collegium Philosophiae members shall be open until the end of Tuesday, June 20, 2017.

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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Lucius Livius Seneca » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:20 pm

L. Livius C. Florio et aliis philosophis sal.

Gai Flori, rem acu tetigisti by asking: "What [was] the normal word for members of the collegia?" Unfortunately, there is no silver bullet here. Just like us, the Romans had a multiplicity of terms for associations and their members which they bandied about freely, without any fine distinctions between them, except, perhaps in special circumstances. We do the same thing today in modern languages: e.g., can anyone define objective distinctions between the English words "guild," "association," "corporation," "company," &c.?

Looking at A. Berger's Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law reveals a similar situation in Latin:

Collegae. Members of the same association (collegium). Also co-guardians and co-heirs are collegae. In public law collegae are officials who simultaneously hold the same office and "have the same power" (D. 50.16.173 pr.), as e.g., consuls, praetors in the same year of service.

Collegiati. Members of coporate bodies, particularly in the provinces. In Rome and Constantinople the term corporati prevailed.

Corporati. Members of a compulsory association (guild) of professional artisans.—See collegiati.

Corpus. With regard to a union of persons, a corporate body, corpus is syn. with collegium.

Leges collegiorum. Statues of associations to which all members are subject. The Twelve Tables already granted the members of collegia (sodales) the right to set internal rules.

Singuli. Individual citizens (as opposed to the whole people, populus Romanus); members of an association (as opposed to the whole body, universitas).

Socius. (In private law.) A partner in a company (see societas), a co-owner, a member of an association (collegium).

Sodales. Members of an association (collegium, sodalitas). In a more specific sense the term refers to colleges of a priestly character, primarily to minor priesthoods.

Universitas. A union of persons or a complex of things, treated as a unit (a whole). As far as a universitas of persons is concerned, the term is applied by jurists in the field of both public (persons associated in a community, civitas, municipia, collegia of a public character) and private law (collegia, societates). Universitas of persons is distinguished from its members (singuli).

According to Gaius, the Twelve Tables—arguably the most venerable text of Roman law—used the term sodales: "Sodales sunt, qui eiusdem collegii sunt" (Dig. 47.22.4).

So, to your question: what was the normal word for members of the collegia? Any of: collegae, collegiati, corporati, singuli, socii, or sodales. Collegiarius is but another, albeit rarer term (which seems to originate from the pen of Tertullian, who was a veritable font of Latin neologisms). The reason why collega is not the best option for our constitution, however, is because the word's significance in public law (viz., co-magistrates) preponderates over its meaning in private law (viz., members).

Personally, I think socius is our best option, a term upon which Lewis and Short bestow their highest benediction: "very freq. and class."

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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:27 pm

It does seem more specific, Livi. I think it is a peetty pretty good compromise. Sincerely, ANY ONE OF THESE TERMS could be used. So might as well be Socius. I vote UTI ROGAS ON SOCIUS.
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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:14 pm

Considering that Sextius Laevus called for a vote about "collegiarius" vs. "collega", I vote ANTIQVO, id est " collega".

But maybe Seneca's other options should be considered. It should be noted that the rare form "collegiarius" is not in his list.
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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:08 pm

I also vote ANTIQVO in Collegiarus, just for the record (if it wasn't implied by my vote on Socius)
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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Publius Sextius Laevus » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:38 am

Salvete Omnes

Per the motion on the floor I vote: Uti Rogas - for the use of 'Collegiarius' for 'member'

I commend Seneca for his research, but see no reason not to put this word to more use and make it our own. It is a legitimate Latin word that means exactly what we intend it to mean. The rarity of surviving examples is not necessarily an indication of the rarity of its use in classical speech. Please keep in mind that the nature of the Latin language lends itself to word morphing and invention.

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Re: Bylaws of the Collegium

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:55 am

Seneca's research should not simply be ignored. It is actually the definite scholarly answer to our debate. If this motion does not pass with majority, then all the options that Seneca found out should be considered.
Therefore ANTIQUO does not mean a vote for "collega", it simply means a rejection to the motion to adopt "collegiarius".

Rarity of surviving examples is of course not only a necessary, but even a sufficient indicator of rarity of its use. What else would be an indicator? This is a basic principle of inductive reasoning, i.e. the scientific method.
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